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Identification of Rubus ursinus vs Rubus armeniacus

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 A note before I begin: Rubus taxonomy is a mess right now. The native Californian species are pretty well defined, but the European / Asian originating ones (often called "Himalayan Blackberry") don't really fit neatly into our current taxonomic concepts. You will see many different names applied to non-native Rubus on the West Coast, and it's unclear if they should all be considered the same species or several different species, and what features should distinguish them from each other if they are different. Various sources you will run across may refer to these plants as Himalayan Blackberry ( Rubus bifrons ), Armenian Blackberry ( Rubus armeniacus ), European Bramble Complex, Rubus discolor, Rubus fruticosus, Rubus vestitus, and probably a dozen other names as well. The Japson Manual calls these plants R armeniacus, so for the purposes of this guide, that is how I will refer to them. So the most obvious difference between R armeniacus and R ursinus is the shape of
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Marah fabacea vs Marah oregana - an identification guide

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I frequently see people attempt to identify Marah based on leaf shape, which is  not  a reliable technique. Marah leaves are incredibly variable, and you will often find more similarity between two individuals of completely different species than you will between two of the same species. To demonstrate, compare the following selections of leaf shapes: California Man Root, Marah Fabacea Coastal Man Root, Marah Oregana So how do you tell them apart? The key is in the flowers, fruits, and range. California Manroot,  Marah fabacea,  is primarily found between Mendocino County and the Santa Barbara area, with some extension into the northern half of the Central Valley. Coast Man Root,  Marah oregana,  is found in coastal areas north of Santa Cruz. It extends northward all the way to Vancouver, and is the only Marah species known to occur in the Pacific Northwest. Marah fabacea range Marah oregana range In short, if it's north of Northern Mendocino County it's probably not M fabacea,
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